What might a second Trump presidency mean for energy access and energy investment? In this special episode, we share a recent conversation between Katie and Ramsey Day, former Trump official and current Hub advisor, on the future of US development assistance and energy poverty.
Ramsey Day is the Head of Strategy and Business Development for Lumenix USA, a leading artificial intelligence-based technology company. Prior to joining Lumenix, Ramsey served as the Assistant Administrator for Africa at the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), where he led the agency’s foreign assistance policy development, budget planning, and program operations across sub-Saharan Africa, including Power Africa and the development of the Prosper Africa initiative. Learn more about Ramsey here.
Show Notes
- Watch the original Coffee Break Briefing.
- Ramsey Day on LinkedIn and X.
Transcript
[00:00:00] KATIE AUTH: I’m Katie Auth.
[00:00:07] ROSE MUTISO: And I’m Rose Mutiso. And this is High Energy Planet, the podcast from the Energy for Growth Hub about new ideas to solve global energy poverty and the people behind them. So today’s episode is a little bit different from our usual format. For many of us, top of mind right now is obviously the US presidential inauguration.
[00:00:24] ROSE MUTISO: So we’re taking this week’s episode to share a conversation that Katie recently had with Hub Advisor Ramsey Day about what a second Trump presidency might mean for the energy access and energy investment sector.
[00:00:34] KATIE AUTH: During the first Trump administration, Ramsey served as the Assistant Administrator for Africa at USAID, where I was working at the time. And he was always a really strong proponent of using U. S. development assistance to advance energy around the world. So I worked with him very closely when I was at Power Africa.
[00:00:51] KATIE AUTH: And recently, I sat down with him again to get his take on what the incoming Trump administration is likely to care about, what what their energy sector priorities might be, and how they’ll approach foreign assistance more broadly, both at USAID and elsewhere. U. S. politics is obviously incredibly divisive right now, and there’s a lot of uncertainty for folks who are working inside U.
[00:01:12] KATIE AUTH: S. development agencies about what’s coming. And in the lead up, there’s a lot to gain from talking to people like Ramsey. So, Rose and I know you’ll learn something from his insights, and we hope you enjoy it.
[00:01:33] KATIE AUTH: so for the next 30 minutes, we’re going to talk to Ramsey about what the second Trump administration might mean for U. S. development assistance. particularly when it comes to issues related to energy access and energy investment. And I want to dig into both some of the biggest changes that we might expect, but also some of the biggest potential opportunities.
[00:01:55] KATIE AUTH: And given Ramsey’s leadership at USAID, we’ll probably focus quite a bit on that agency specifically, but I also hope that we’ll touch on broader strategic questions that relate to all of the U. S. development agencies and our, um, our broader approach. So without further ado, let’s open it up.
[00:02:14] KATIE AUTH: Ramsey, thank you so much for being here.
[00:02:16] RAMSEY DAY: Oh, thanks for having me, Katie, and good to see you.
[00:02:18] KATIE AUTH: You too. Um, I thought before we dig into specific energy issues, I would start by asking you to reflect on the administration’s approach to USAID and development assistance more broadly. So a two part question. What’s the most important feature of Trump 1’s approach that you expect to continue?
[00:02:39] KATIE AUTH: And what’s one major aspect or priority or approach that you think might change?
[00:02:45] RAMSEY DAY: Great question. Well, again, thanks, Katie, for having me. Really looking forward to the conversation. Um, you know, I think in the first Trump administration, uh, there was a very clear organizing principle, and it was under the banner of the journey to self reliance, which I’m sure you remember quite well. Um, and that was really predicated on, on the core belief, uh, that everything that the agency funded and supported enhance the partner country’s ability to achieve self reliance.
[00:03:12] RAMSEY DAY: And we define that as the their ability to plan, finance, and implement their own development agenda, you know, hopefully transitioning from a donor recipient to a partner, and then hopefully eventually, you know, a donor themselves, but all with the open, openly stated goal of ending the need for foreign assistance.
[00:03:32] RAMSEY DAY: Um, so I believe that organizing principle The journey to self reliance, maybe it’s called that. Maybe it’s called, you know, something different. Um, but the real kind of core philosophy, I think will play a large part in the incoming administration. So, um, you know, I think that’s certainly coming back. Um, again, I think maybe it’s called a different name or something, but, um, but I do believe that those principles will be there, you know, I, I think in terms of, you know, what might be a little bit more.
[00:04:02] RAMSEY DAY: Um, you know, I think as a result of the election, and I think the mandate that the incoming administration has, um, I do believe that we are going to see a, I think, a relentless effort to align our foreign assistance, um, with our national security and strategic interests, um, and I think there’s going to be significant scrutiny, um, I think on every program to kind of meet that test, you know, does it have direct interest in our, Uh, in our national security and strategic interests, what, what development challenges it’s solving and is that in our national strategic and security interest?
[00:04:37] RAMSEY DAY: Can progress be measured? Um, you know, are the, are the donors making, are other donors and funders making investments in this space? Or is the U. S. kind of footing the full bill? Uh, is, um, are the host country, Um, I’m a big fan of the journey to self reliance roadmaps. Um, and, uh, and, and illustrating the kind of level of commitment and the level of capacity.
[00:05:03] RAMSEY DAY: It gives us a real snapshot as to where that particular country is on that path. I do think that we are going to see significantly increased kind of scrutiny, um, aligning that the, the, the each individual program with our overall national interest. But I also think energy. Uh, is going to be front and center on that, which I’m sure we’ll talk quite a bit about.
[00:05:26] KATIE AUTH: And when you say aligning with strategic interests, Is that mostly competition with China or are there other major issues that you think are going to shape the U. S. approach?
[00:05:36] RAMSEY DAY: I certainly think that’s a part of it. Um, you know, it’s, uh, you know, uh, in the first Trump administration, we referred to some of these actors as, as countering malign influences, whether they’re geostrategic competitors, um, which I, you know, I think on the African continent, we, we welcome a level playing field.
[00:05:54] RAMSEY DAY: Um, but I certainly think we’ve seen an increase, um, of Russian engagement, particularly in the security sector, um, but also how African partners, how we engage with African partners from an economic perspective, I think is going to play a central role, again, coming back to the energy side, but, um, I think, uh, our partnership with, with Africa, and I’m sure we’ll talk about this as well, um, you know, we, we kind of need to, you know, Uh, evolve our relationship with, uh, with the African continent.
[00:06:26] RAMSEY DAY: So I think transitioning to a more economic based, uh, partnership rather than an aid based partnership is something that’s going to be highly focused on. So,
[00:06:35] KATIE AUTH: Great. So to maybe stick with that thought about what that relationship looks like and dive into the energy aspect a little more deeply. During the first administration, when you were at USAID, which specific aspects of the U. S. government’s approach to global energy did you find resonated particularly well with kind of high level White House leadership and
[00:06:57] RAMSEY DAY: yeah, yeah, that’s a good question. Well, I think there was certainly a recognition, uh, that’ll hold true from the first administration to the second administration, uh, that the world needs more energy. Not less, you know, consumption is going up. Perhaps it’s flat in the U. S. or Europe, but it’s certainly increasing around the world, particularly with the BRICS plus countries, which I think now account for 40 plus percent of global consumption.
[00:07:23] RAMSEY DAY: So, um, we are certainly blessed. Um, with vast energy resources and technology technological innovation, uh, driven by the private sector. But I think that’s one of the areas that resonated with me the most. Um, and it’s not necessarily new, um, but private sector engagement, particularly in the energy sector, I think is not only crucial, it’s simply part and parcel.
[00:07:46] RAMSEY DAY: Um, and I think that was ultimately the genesis of Power Africa, uh, with the goal of bringing electricity to those who don’t have it. But at the same time it’s at its core, it is truly a private sector engagement, uh, mechanism. Now we can always debate about the best way and the, and the how, but the what, I think, has always been, uh, a bipartisan issue, and I think it was supported in the first Trump administration, uh, and I think it will be continued to be supported, uh, you know, going forward.
[00:08:17] RAMSEY DAY: And I think it’s largely because Power Africa, uh, in this particular case, again, as its core, uh, is exclusively driven by and in support of the U. S. private sector, which I think will be a central theme, uh, in the second Trump administration, is how do we have you know, how do we achieve development goals uh, that also have a benefit to the U.
[00:08:37] RAMSEY DAY: S.? Um, whether it be job creation, whether it be energy production, uh, and export, um, whether it be technological innovation that we can export, um, to really kind of build deeper, better, stronger, Uh, economic relationships and in, in my case, uh, Africa, but, but certainly around the world as well.
[00:08:57] KATIE AUTH: So just to follow up on that, if Private sector investment in the energy space is an area of bipartisan agreement and support, which I completely agree with. Um, I want to ask about a topic which is much more divisive, which is, um, kind of the ideological battles that have infected US politics over certain energy technologies.
[00:09:21] KATIE AUTH: curious whether you think
[00:09:25] KATIE AUTH: Whether there’s a way to talk about the benefits of clean energy in a way that will resonate with this administration and hopefully kind of mitigate or avoid some of the ideological battles.
[00:09:40] RAMSEY DAY: Yeah, yeah, no, it’s a good question. I think it’s a fair one too. Um, you know, I think in any kind of programming set, uh, regardless of sector, you know, I think it has to be rooted in American interests. Um, and I think it’ll need to be framed as such. So I think we within the Africa policy community, um, have to make the case, uh, that this, that, that Africa ultimately should be elevated amongst a very, very crowded foreign priority, uh, foreign policy priority list.
[00:10:07] RAMSEY DAY: Um, but that this is make the case of what our national interests are in that particular Uh, Programmer in that particular sector. You know, it’s, it’s certainly going to be called a much more transactional approach. Um, I think that’s sometimes used in a, in a derogatory sense. I don’t think it should be used in a derogatory sense.
[00:10:26] RAMSEY DAY: I think energy deals are at their core, uh, transactional, um, because I think the incoming administration has made it very, very clear. that there must be a direct benefit to the U. S., which I think is fair. Um, I always try to be, avoid trying to be critical, but I do think that there’s a view with the incoming administration that the previous administration, uh, the pendulum kind of swung pretty far, um, within the climate change side, and that may have, that may have clouded some of the vision, uh, the, the 360 degree perspective that I think is really important and may have vacuumed up, You know, so many, so much time and resources and efforts and that it’s an important issue, but it’s not the only issue.
[00:11:05] RAMSEY DAY: So I think it is fair to say that the incoming administration is certainly going to pursue an all of the above approach. Um, not to the detriment of renewables or clean energy, but, uh, but not to the detriment of, you know, more conventional, uh, that arguably are, at least in current form, are perhaps more reliable, more abundant, and cheaper.
[00:11:28] RAMSEY DAY: So, I think the all of the above approach is certainly going to be at the core of, of the incoming administration’s approach. So, but I think if, if, uh, initiatives, The programs are framed and made very clear as to what the benefit is to the United States, which I think in the energy sector, it’s an easy argument to make, um, and it’s really rooted in an all of the above approach.
[00:11:49] RAMSEY DAY: Uh, then I think it’ll be successful and I’ll have support.
[00:11:53] KATIE AUTH: When you say a transactional approach, which I think is a phrase that can mean a bunch of different things, um, certainly it means focusing on specific commercial transactions, like an investment in a particular energy project, but I think it can also mean, um, this type of mutual benefit approach where you’re being upfront and honest about the U.
[00:12:15] KATIE AUTH: S. wanting to gain in some way from a certain, well, I’ll let you, what do you think a transactional approach means in this context?
[00:12:26] RAMSEY DAY: Yeah, no, I think you’re right. I mean, it certainly has multiple definitions. I mean, uh, listen, there are, um, a number of African partners, uh, that have, um, can maybe have lower levels of capacity, but they have really high levels of commitment. I mean, they have committed leadership, they have committed citizenry.
[00:12:46] RAMSEY DAY: Um, those are the type of partners that I think we are really should be targeting. Um, you know, those partners that have really. And these are objective metrics. These aren’t USAID’s metrics. These are, you know, objective, third party, uh, metrics, where the countries are really low on the commitment level, meaning if they’re not committed, should we be?
[00:13:07] RAMSEY DAY: Um, and that’s, again, I’m taking a few things kind of off the table. I’m taking, you know, humanitarian assistance kind of off the table, a lot of our health type programming, uh, that is really kind of rooted in our American values, um, but really more on the economic development side. Um, if they’re not committed, then what are we doing?
[00:13:24] RAMSEY DAY: You know, at the end of the day, we have to have committed partners. Um, and so if that’s defined as transactional, in my opinion, you know, so be it. But, um, there is, this is a two way street. I think that, uh, in my particular case, in my sector, you know, the African countries really have to demonstrate, uh, a commitment to modernizing, uh, their economic policy.
[00:13:46] RAMSEY DAY: Um, you know, and that includes everything from AI to digitization to the judicial system, uh, to the investing into their own people, um, uh, commitment to democratic principles, you know, all of the things that is kind of the bread and butter work of USAID. If those countries are not committed to those reforms.
[00:14:08] RAMSEY DAY: Then do we need to move those resources to countries that are?
[00:14:12] KATIE AUTH: So it sounds a little bit like proposing that USAID operate at least slightly more like MCC, for example, where there are explicit kind of accountability metrics built into program design.
[00:14:24] RAMSEY DAY: Listen, I love the MCC model. Again, it really looks at objective data and metrics. I think one of the challenges is that there are gaps, right? There are gaps in qualifying countries. So MCC has a set of thresholds that must be met to be able to be eligible for a compact. I’m also a big believer in development compacts that U-S-A-I-D-I think could use.
[00:14:46] RAMSEY DAY: Um, I’m also a big believer in energy security compacts that I know you and Todd have worked, uh, tirelessly on. I think it makes a lot of sense. So in many ways, I think MCC and U-S-A-I-D can be complimentary and that U-S-A-I-D can work with countries that are kind of on that path. towards getting to an MCC compact threshold, uh, uh, capability or, uh, qualification, but maybe aren’t there yet, but some, but do have high levels of commitment.
[00:15:12] RAMSEY DAY: Then I think a, you know, a development compact or increased aid to those countries, uh, that are really committed, I think makes a lot of sense.
[00:15:19] KATIE AUTH: So to stick on this theme of kind of the complementarity of different agencies, uh, I wanted to ask about DFC because DFC was obviously launched during the first administration, the first Trump administration, and it continues to enjoy broad bipartisan support. Its lending cap might very well be expanded significantly in the upcoming reauthorization process.
[00:15:42] KATIE AUTH: Um, But I think in many of the lower income markets where, you know, we’re talking about energy investment, the pipeline of investment ready deals. for DFC to come in and support is actually still quite limited. And I’m curious, based on your experience at USAID, are there things that you think USAID could do better to put DFC in a position to expand its lending in the poorest countries, um, whether in the energy sector or more broadly?
[00:16:11] RAMSEY DAY: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a great question. Um, well, perhaps a little bit, uh, loaded because I think there’s, you can go in so many different directions when it comes to the DFC. It’s such a, such an important tool within the, the, the toolbox of the U. S. government. Um, you know, uh, in, in terms of like complementarity, um, I’m certainly a believer in consolidating government agencies where if you can, if and when you can save costs.
[00:16:36] RAMSEY DAY: Um, I think a lot of us would certainly agree that the government has grown exponentially, um, but I do think many of these, uh, institutions are incredibly important. I see a lot of complementarity, uh, particularly between USAID, MCC, um, and DFC. Um, as I mentioned, you know, MCC, uh, has, you know, I think some challenges in qualifying countries.
[00:16:58] RAMSEY DAY: Um, I think the DFC, um, Per usual, and I think it’s very natural, will take on an evolution over time. Um, you know, we sometimes forget that it’s, it’s only been around for about what, six years or so. Um, and it’ll take some time, I think, to settle in. I, as kind of a, somewhat of a development person would like to see, you know, the DFC kind of push the envelope and embrace the, the D in their name a little bit more, um, particularly in countries that.
[00:17:25] RAMSEY DAY: Uh, that may illustrate some, some risk to American investors, but I think that at the end of the day, that is, uh, the role of, uh, the, of the DFC, which is ultimately to, to help de risk, uh, investments that would, uh, typically, you know, be a little bit too risky for American investment, and to try to encourage those, those investments, um, in places that are strategically important, uh, to our interest, and so I, I think that will be, uh, Hopefully something that will be, uh, elevated as a priority is to, uh, is to kind of nudge the DFC to, to get out of its comfort zone a little bit and look at, uh, at countries that are incredibly important to our national interest, um, but may represent a bit more risk.
[00:18:11] KATIE AUTH: So I’m gonna push you a little bit on that one, because I think that anyone who has followed the DFC reauthorization debate knows that that conversation over whether the DFC should be focused predominantly on strategic foreign policy interests or development is at the heart of a lot of the ongoing conversation on the Hill about reauthorization and what it should do.
[00:18:35] KATIE AUTH: I’m curious, If you were in a position to make the strongest possible case to the Trump administration or to Republicans on the Hill about why development should be core to the DFC, what would you say? How would you frame that?
[00:18:49] RAMSEY DAY: Well, I don’t necessarily think they’re mutually exclusive, and I don’t think they are competing with each other. Um, I think in many cases, particularly in Africa, our development agenda, uh, is very, very aligned or should be aligned with our national security, um, interests. And so when we think about, you know, How are we ultimately going to challenge, uh, and, uh, well, challenge China on the continent?
[00:19:14] RAMSEY DAY: You know, for a very, very long time, USAID, the U. S. government, when it came to Africa, really focused on, on social programming. That needs to change, um, and that’s not to say that we need to jettison, uh, support for education or child and maternal health or anything like that, um, but it does mean that we have not prioritized, prioritized economic cooperation, and so we’re behind the game.
[00:19:38] RAMSEY DAY: Um, and the Chinese saw that opportunity and they, they took it. Um, and so for a long time, as the saying goes in, in DC, they, they’ve been eating our lunch for a long time and that needs to change, but the DFC, um, is absolutely crucial. Um, to that, uh, evolution of the relationship evolving from an aid based relationship to one rooted in economic cooperation.
[00:20:04] RAMSEY DAY: So if you want to make headway on the African continent, and you want to be able to counter some malign influences, um, or geostrategic competitors. namely China, um, which has its claws pretty deep into, uh, most, if not all, uh, African countries. Then we have to get in that game, and the DFC is a key component of that.
[00:20:26] RAMSEY DAY: Um, I don’t see any other way, uh, that we are going to be able to, uh, transition that relationship. Uh, without every single one of the international agencies in the U. S. government that folks that have an interest in Africa working together to ultimately help American companies invest, um, and increase two way trade and investment.
[00:20:48] RAMSEY DAY: I think that’s the only way to be able to compete, uh, and to counter some of the malign influences that we’ve seen over the last, uh, two decades.
[00:20:55] KATIE AUTH: Um, we’re starting to get some audience questions, so I’m going to start peppering in some of these. Um, one is about critical minerals. I think it’s safe to assume that minerals will be a piece of the Trump administration’s trade engagement with Africa and questions about how to scale up support and engagement over those minerals.
[00:21:18] KATIE AUTH: Um, I’m curious what you see as the biggest opportunity for U. S. foreign assistance in the mineral space and maybe also what’s a big risk that you are, that you would caution the administration to look out for.
[00:21:34] RAMSEY DAY: Yeah, all the easy questions, right? Um, you know, so, you know, critical minerals have clearly been, uh, talk about eating our lunch. I mean, you know, what, 90 percent of critical minerals are processed in China. Um, what, 60 or 70 percent of, uh, Of lithium and cobalt that’s so important to all of the things that are, that are important to us, including, you know, electric vehicles and, uh, and, and the iPhones and things like that are all, you know, by and large processed in, in China.
[00:22:05] RAMSEY DAY: So, um, I think libido quarter, of course, is going to play an important role here. I think within the energy aspect, boy, there’s some really. fascinating, impactful energy projects that I think will be incredibly important to support. Um, I think the, you know, the, uh, the critical mineral mining in the DRC and several other countries, um, are energy, scarce.
[00:22:31] RAMSEY DAY: Um, and I think these energy projects are absolutely going to be critical. So whether that’s USAID or MCC or DFC, um, whatever the cocktail is, um, I think strategically, we have to look at ways in which we can support that. I think President Biden’s trip to Angola, um, highlighting the libido quarter, I think was a, I think a critical message to send.
[00:22:52] RAMSEY DAY: Um, I’m also a big advocate for the incoming president, um, within the first year or so to make a trip to Africa as well to send that same, to reinforce that same message, uh, that we are here, um, and that we’re here in a different way, um, and that conventional aid programs through traditional sectors, through traditional means, um, I think is a way of the past, and that we’re going to be looking to, uh, you know, a lot of the same goals, you know, You know, ending energy poverty, ending poverty writ large, um, but doing it through the private sector.
[00:23:25] RAMSEY DAY: Um, because I think we’ve learned over the last 60 years that aid can buy you time, but it isn’t going to solve the problem. It isn’t going to end poverty. The private sector is going to do that. But USAID and MCC and the 17 or 18 different U. S. government agencies that, uh, that engage in Africa all have a role to play.
[00:23:45] RAMSEY DAY: Um, but at the end of the day, it’s Transitioning that relationship to an economic one is ultimately what’s going to going to solve the problem. And so, um, energy is such an important component of that because we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re not going to be able to, uh, achieve what we want to achieve if, if all of those projects don’t have the energy to drive it, and they also need the local communities need to benefit from the build out of energy infrastructure as well.
[00:24:14] KATIE AUTH: Um, I wanted to ask you about the U. S. relationship with public international organizations like the World Bank. Uh, clearly the incoming administration has a, uh, a pretty significant skepticism of the value of providing funding through those organizations, but at the same time in the sector, you know, the World Bank remains a major funder of energy projects and including in some forms of infrastructure that the U.
[00:24:41] KATIE AUTH: S. really doesn’t have the tools to do at scale, like T& D infrastructure. Um, and so I’m curious, I could see two pathways. I could see the next administration kind of pushing for significant reforms at organizations like the World Bank, and really leaning on them to do things differently, or I could see them kind of ignoring the bank altogether and, and, um, Seeking to work in completely different ways.
[00:25:08] KATIE AUTH: And I’m curious what you think is the most likely trajectory there.
[00:25:12] RAMSEY DAY: Yeah, so another good question. Um, I, I think you’re spot on. I think the anticipation of skepticism, uh, with PIOs, um, will be, uh, obvious, um, particularly given, I think, some of the individuals that will go into the agency, most likely. Um, quite frankly, I’m a skeptic too. Uh, you know, um, I, I just haven’t seen where, and again, I’ll make blanket statements, but then we can talk about individual agencies or, or institutions.
[00:25:40] RAMSEY DAY: Um, but, um, haven’t been effective. They haven’t delivered on, um, what they said they were going to deliver or, uh, at the getting the results that ultimately, uh, we were investing in. And these, these are very, very large investments. Um, and in some cases, the, the institutions are not working in, uh, U. S.
[00:26:01] RAMSEY DAY: interests. And so, um, you know, but again, that’s a blanket statement. I think there have been some great partnerships. The World Food Program, I think, has been a great partner of USAID. I think, I fully anticipate that will, will continue. Um, so it could be somewhat of an unfair, uh, statement. The World Bank, um, itself, um, you know, I don’t know that the second administration, second Trump administration is going to ignore the World Bank.
[00:26:24] RAMSEY DAY: I think it all depends on kind of what approaches the World Bank takes. I certainly would anticipate that a second Trump administration is going to embrace an all the above approach. I don’t know that we’ve really seen, uh, significant investments in conventional energy sources over the last five or six years, with the World Bank.
[00:26:42] RAMSEY DAY: I still have a ban on nuclear and I, I still, it is such a riddle to me as to how we are going to solve the energy crisis. challenge without nuclear being a core component of that mix. Uh, it simply has to be. I know that the DFC kind of lifted its ban on, on, on nuclear financing a few years ago, but I don’t know if there’s really been any significant investments, um, in the nuclear space, but I also recognize it’s, it’s a hard space to, to, to move forward and it takes time.
[00:27:11] RAMSEY DAY: Um, you know, I think if the World Bank reflects on all of the above approach, then I can see. Uh, you know, uh, significant collaboration, uh, if they don’t, uh, then I think the administration is going to do what it’s going to do, and it’s going to advance its national interest. And I believe that the incoming administration believes that they have a mandate to do that.
[00:27:33] RAMSEY DAY: They’ve been asked by the American people to, uh, to, to increase energy production, um, which will certainly have an impact on inflation and costs and, uh, a whole host of other, uh, issues. And so, um, I think that there are significant opportunities for collaboration, but it is going to be reflective of what the priorities are of the World Bank and some of the other PIOs that are out there.
[00:27:59] KATIE AUTH: Um, in the one minute we have left, I’m going to get one more audience question, which is When we think about global energy development in emerging economies. There’s kind of the energy access agenda, which is about first time access and getting people out to that first level of the energy ladder. And then there’s energy for larger stage growth and economic development.
[00:28:21] KATIE AUTH: I happen to think that those aren’t separate things, but they are kind of slightly different conversations. How do you expect the new administration will think about access versus energy for larger scale development and what that might mean for policy.
[00:28:41] RAMSEY DAY: Yeah, I mean, you know, energy acts incredibly important to everything within the development spectrum. Um, and so if our goal is to help these countries move to a place where they’re self reliant, Energy has to be, again, front and center of that, because, to my knowledge, there’s never been a country that has really advanced on the development spectrum in any meaningful way without, access to reliable, abundant, and relatively affordable energy access.
[00:29:12] RAMSEY DAY: I’m sure there’ll be a lot of people in the audience who may be able to, you know, fact check me on that, but, you know, the rule is, of course, that you need, um, access to, you know, uh, to energy, whether that’s a small business or whether that’s a smallholder farmer or, uh, simply to, to cook food, um, or gain, you know, access to water and other types of, uh, you know, staples.
[00:29:34] RAMSEY DAY: So, um, You know, I think when we look at some of the large scale projects, I do think it’s important that there are benefits at the local level and across. So look at the Lobito corridor. I think it would be very, very important. And some of the hydro program, uh, hydro programs, I think in Angola and the DRC, incredibly important to build in local access into that.
[00:29:58] RAMSEY DAY: So to, to the extent that you can bridge the benefits to large scale infrastructure projects, as well as local access, I think is, is incredibly important. And then let’s not just forget the politics of Uh, being able to have, uh, local support, which is incredibly important, um, um, so that you have, uh, you know, also a, a, a local label for, for us that also is incredibly important.
[00:30:23] RAMSEY DAY: So, a whole host of that. So, I don’t see those as competing, um, but I do think that have, you have to be cognizant when building out the design of those projects that there is, uh, direct and, and clear benefit to, to local, uh, local beneficiaries.
[00:30:38] KATIE AUTH: Um, Ramsey, thank you so much. This has been, uh, wonderful and insightful. Uh, thanks to all of those who joined us online and especially those who submitted questions, and I hope this was helpful and interesting and Ramsey, I’m sure we’ll have plenty more to talk with you about in, uh, the coming months and years.
[00:30:56] KATIE AUTH: That’s it for today’s show. We hope you learned something, and stay tuned for more work from the Hub this year on U. S. investment, diplomatic engagement, and how our changing politics impact the world.
[00:31:13] ROSE MUTISO: High Energy Planet is a production of the Energy for Growth Hub, matching policy makers with evidence based pathways to a high energy future for everyone. Find out more at energyforgrowth. org and share your questions and thoughts with us at Energy for Growth on X and LinkedIn.
[00:31:27] KATIE AUTH: If you liked today’s episode, be sure to rate and review the podcast and tell a friend about us. Audrey Zenner is our senior producer. Join us next time for more High Energy Planet.